Форумът на Thorn

Темата за балканския̌т езиков съюз я̨ започна̨х във форумът Наука.

Развил съм я̨ в публикацията си Balkansprachbund-ът: балканския̌т езиков съюз.

Balkansprachbund-ът е част от историята на нашия̌т език. Затова сложих тази тема в раздѣлът "Българска история" на този форум.

В отдѣлна глава съм дал периодизацията на българския̌т език:

праисторически период
праиндоевропейски период
славянски период
Балкански период: периодът на Balkansprachbund-ът
русофилски период
циганско-глобализационен период

В отдѣлна глава съм дал и списък с прѣпратки към разни твърдения, изказани в основния̌т текст.

Balkansprachbund-ът е балкански езиков съюз на Ромѣйската империя (на Романия), зародил се прѣз 10-ти вѣк и надживѣ̋л я̨ с нѣ̋колко вѣка.

Фиксирал съм пет основни характеристики на Balkansprachbund-ът: {Балкан‑1}..{Балкан‑5}.

Пълноправно члѣнство в Balkansprachbund-ът получават само езицитѣ, които притежават всичкитѣ тѣзи пет характеристики.

Такива езици на свѣтът има четири:

гръцки (ново-гръцката димотика)
български (балкано-славянски)
румѫнски (балкано-романски, влашки)
албански

Дал съм и отворен списък с допълниртелни балкански характеристики. Липсата на нѣ̋коя от тѣзи допълнителни характеристики не лишава езикът от члѣнство в Balkansprachbund-ът.

Главата потапяне в детайлитѣ на отдѣлнитѣ характеристики" е сѫществена част от публикацията.

Това е като начало за посѣтителитѣ на този форум.
Отзиви сѫ добрѣ дошли.
В отдѣлни коментари по-нататък може би ще поставям проблеми.

Забѣлѣжка: Горѣ в дѣсно има бутони за смѣ̋на на правописът.

Доколкото не възнамѣрявам да отварям тема за славянския̌т период от историята на нашия̌т език, давам списък с нѣ̋кои публикации относно славянщината.

"Вече е превключено на ОФ-български."

Чел съм ги тези неща в блога и преди, чета ги и сега с удоволствие. В някои пунктове обаче науката търпи развитие.

"Но славянска душа няма. Славянска кръв няма. Славянска раса няма. Славянски гени няма."

Тъй като тези дни сме на вълна "генетика", ще коментирам горната постановка. Технологиите вече са на границата да определят славянския генетичен компонент в следния смисъл - славяногласните популации го притежават в големи
количества, а там, където липсва, популациите не са славяногласни. Изследваните средновековни проби с този генетичен компонент заемат доста сериозен ареал - Централна, Източна Европа, Балканите, даже има един от Мала Азия:

Диаграмата може да се възпроизведе и да се разгледа подробно, ако на този адрес:

https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#Europe1

въведем следния код:

Код за потвърждение: Избери целия код

HRV_Trogir_Byz_o:I15742,0.121791,0.140143,0.048649,0.029393,0.038161,0.014781,0.00329,0.010615,0.007567,-0.010387,0.000812,-0.004346,0.018731,0.020368,-0.020222,-0.011535,-0.00665,0.007095,0.006913,-0.008379,-0.004367,-0.003339,0.005916,-0.002169,-0.002994
TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3:I10430,0.130897,0.133034,0.065242,0.037791,0.043085,0.008646,0.008225,0.019615,-0.005931,-0.016401,0.00065,-0.007343,0.008771,0.019955,-0.008143,0.003447,0.009257,-0.004434,-0.004651,-0.002626,-0.007736,-0.005193,0.011216,-0.007712,-0.007664
HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av1,0.130897,0.13405,0.060716,0.049742,0.035391,0.023427,0.006815,0.007846,0.002659,-0.012574,-0.001786,-0.006894,0.004608,0.016515,-0.008415,-0.001193,-0.002347,0.001394,0.004902,0.002751,-0.000125,-0.005564,0.007148,-0.003976,0.000718
HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.135449,0.128972,0.080704,0.063954,0.034776,0.034025,0.006815,0.007615,0.009613,-0.02041,-0.001461,-0.005245,0.010852,0.026561,-0.014658,-0.002254,0.002347,0.001267,0.01081,-0.001751,0.001622,-0.002844,0.009613,-0.008314,0.005389
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DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA001,0.129758,0.122879,0.07203,0.068476,0.044316,0.025937,0.012221,0.013615,-0.005727,-0.024602,-0.002761,-0.007943,0.011447,0.018441,-0.014251,0.011403,0.021383,-0.005954,0.003645,0.002126,0.000873,-0.009398,0.009244,-0.005784,-0.000479
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA002,0.125205,0.129988,0.073539,0.065246,0.034468,0.022311,0.00846,0.013615,-0.001636,-0.021868,-0.003085,-0.013638,0.012339,0.012248,-0.000271,0.011005,0.004303,-0.004181,0.002891,0.001876,-0.00549,-0.007543,0.002095,-0.000843,-0.005269
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA003,0.127482,0.123895,0.077687,0.065246,0.044624,0.010598,0.01081,0.017307,0.00225,-0.022233,-0.001137,-0.007943,0.017542,0.008808,-0.002172,0.023336,0.019427,0.00266,0.001131,0.006503,-0.006863,-0.004081,0.007148,0.006627,-0.000239
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA004,0.134311,0.126941,0.089,0.07752,0.050779,0.029284,0.00094,0.00923,0.004909,-0.016401,0.001949,-0.008842,0.020664,0.019818,-0.006515,0.005701,0.00665,0.0019,0.00817,0.007128,-0.010731,-0.000989,0.003451,-0.014942,-0.003712
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA005,0.127482,0.13405,0.069013,0.068799,0.049548,0.021753,0.009635,0.015461,-0.006545,-0.021139,-0.004709,-0.009442,0.010406,0.02257,-0.006515,-0.004508,0.009909,-0.001774,0.006411,0.006753,-0.008235,-0.002968,0.006655,-0.00482,0.000239
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA006,0.129758,0.120848,0.065242,0.061047,0.043085,0.022869,0.00564,0.012923,-0.001432,-0.020228,-0.000487,-0.010041,0.013379,0.024772,-0.011808,-0.012198,-0.00339,-0.004814,-0.000503,-0.004752,0.001248,0.000247,0.007148,-0.010845,0.002395
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA007,0.125205,0.131003,0.082212,0.067184,0.047701,0.02761,0.00846,0.011538,-0.000205,-0.035718,0.001949,-0.006594,0.01888,0.02202,-0.009365,-0.01485,-0.002868,0.000887,-0.003017,0.005503,0.000749,0.000989,0.00037,-0.003976,0.007664
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA008,0.132035,0.129988,0.078064,0.066215,0.037853,0.018965,0.005405,0.009923,0.001432,-0.021868,-0.006496,-0.008243,0.015758,0.011147,-0.011536,0.009944,0.020861,-0.00228,0.002514,0.003126,-0.004617,0.000124,0.000493,-0.005663,0.001676
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA009,0.129758,0.129988,0.064111,0.064923,0.039392,0.021196,0.00893,0.011307,0.000205,-0.028793,-0.003085,-0.009891,0.017988,0.023258,-0.010722,0.006629,0.007693,0.00114,0.004651,0.00988,-0.01123,0.000495,0.003944,-0.008796,-0.001197
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA010,0.129758,0.12491,0.065619,0.059755,0.044624,0.02761,0.012456,0.013153,0.000205,-0.023873,-0.007307,-0.010641,0.011596,0.021056,-0.0057,-0.010342,-0.007041,-0.007221,0.005908,-0.007879,-0.000749,-0.001237,0.002958,-0.005904,-0.002036
DEU_MA_Krakauer_Berg:KRA011,0.130897,0.132019,0.082212,0.069768,0.050163,0.026216,0.012926,0.009923,0.002454,-0.019135,-0.002111,-0.008692,0.014717,0.023533,-0.012486,-0.011005,-0.004172,0.002154,0.006034,0.006003,-0.006738,-0.01014,0.007395,-0.004217,0.003592
CZE_Early_Slav:RISE569,0.12862,0.129988,0.068259,0.046835,0.02739,0.013387,0.007285,0.014076,-0.001841,-0.018406,-0.000812,-0.004346,0.003717,0.007156,-0.010993,-0.003182,0.011604,-0.002027,-0.002388,-0.004752,0.005615,0.000618,0.001725,-0.000964,-0.006706
RUS_Sunghir_MA:Sunghir6,0.129758,0.116786,0.070899,0.060078,0.041238,0.018965,0.009165,0.011307,0.001432,-0.017859,0.000487,-0.008093,0.014271,0.023809,-0.014658,-0.005834,0.00013,-0.002154,0.000628,-0.001251,-0.007986,-0.005812,0.012695,-0.010724,-0.005868
MNE_IA_wrong_date:I13170,0.124067,0.129988,0.058454,0.045866,0.028313,0.011713,0.00517,0.013384,0.001636,-0.008747,0.007795,-0.014387,0.007136,0.014313,-0.016015,0.009414,-0.000782,-0.002787,-0.003017,-0.004627,-0.00861,-0.000618,0.000616,-0.005784,-0.005628

Оставам си скептичен за евентуалния̌т принос на генетиката към лингвистиката.

Все пак, тукашната тема е за Balkansprachbund-ът. Моля̨ да се отварят други теми за обсѫђане на славянщината.

Извинявай, а кога гръцкият е станал аналитичен?

Thorn написа: ↑01 Юни 2023, 16:08 Извинявай, а кога гръцкият е станал аналитичен?

Налагат се терминологични уточнения.

Когато се питаме дали един език е индо-европейски, дали е славянски или дали е тюркски, възможнитѣ отговори сѫ: "да", "не" или "не се знае". Езикът не може да бѫде отчасти славянски, примѣрно.

Обаче когато се питаме дали един език е синтетичен или аналитичен, трѣ̋бва да се уточни: В сравнение с какво? До каква степен?

Съврѣменния̌т гръцки език е аналитичен в сравнение със старо-гръцки, който пък е синтетичен в сравнение с ново-гръцкия̌т.

По сѫщия̌т начин, съврѣменнитѣ френски-испански-италиански-румѫнски сѫ аналитични в сравнение с латинския̌т, който пък е синтетичен в сравнение със съврѣменния̌т романс.

Движението от синтетичност към аналитичност е свойствено на всѣки флективен език. А всички индо-европейски езици сѫ флективни.

Оста синтетичност-аналитичност не е дефинирана за тюркскитѣ езици, които не сѫ флективни, а сѫ аглутинативни. За китайския̌т език сѫщо така нѣ̋ма смисъл да питаме дали е аналитичен.

Проблемът е подробно изяснен в подраздѣлът Синтетичност и аналитичност при индо-европейскитѣ езици.

Цитат оттам, слѣд прѣброяване на словоформитѣ в български, руски и старо-славянски:

В руски показателя̌т за синтетичност сѫщо така е намалѣ̋л, но в български е намалѣ̋л повече. И руския̌т език се е придвижил към аналитичност, но българския̌т се е придвижил повече.

Цитат от въведението:

Ако един език е славянски, то той е славянски на 100%. Но ако се каже, че един език е аналитичен, винѫги стои въпросът до каква степен той е аналитичен.

Форумът на Thorn

Balkansprachbund-ът: балканскиът езиков съюз

Balkansprachbund-ът: балканскиът езиков съюз

Re: Balkansprachbund-ът: балканскиът езиков съюз

Re: Balkansprachbund-ът: балканскиът езиков съюз

Re: Balkansprachbund-ът: балканскиът езиков съюз

Re: Balkansprachbund-ът: балканскиът езиков съюз

Re: Balkansprachbund-ът: балканскиът езиков съюз